Melody: All right. Welcome back to Beyond the Protocol where I'm so excited to have my guest, Bryan Blair with us today. Welcome, Bryan.
Bryan: Hi, Melody. Thank you so much for having me today. I am really excited to be here.
Melody: I am too. I was looking forward to today. I know we've had some really good conversations just.
About our topic for the day. So I'm excited to be able to share that with everyone else and hopefully they'll get some good information and takeaways from our talk today. I know every time we talk I walk away with really good information that I use going forward, so I think my guests will too.
My, those that are listening to my guest will too.
Bryan: Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate that.
Melody: Yeah, so let's jump right in. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about your journey and how you got into biotech and recruitment.
Bryan: Okay, so I'll start by saying I'm the Vice President of Life Sciences at GQR.
We are an agency recruitment firm and within GQRI, I'm interacting with candidates, clients doing stuff with AI for our team and for clients. And so it's we got a lot of exciting stuff going on at GQR. I like all other recruiters, if nobody else knew this, nobody really, plans on going into the profession.
I had mine in 2020 when I graduated college. The company that I was going to work for went under five days before I graduated, so Oh my goodness. I was like, I'm gonna move to New York City. There's a lot of jobs there. One of my friends, he had moved back to Westchester, New York was in the middle of the pandemic, and I found a job in recruiting, and I will do this every day for the rest of my life.
I could not be happier.
Melody: It's funny you say that because I've worked with some amazing recruiters. Recruiters, when I was on the consulting side, independent consultant, I never had to go out and actively look for new contracts or new clients. I had the best recruiters who just connected with me and they knew I would deliver for them and keep good relationships with their clients.
And they call me. And so I have great feelings about recruiters in our industry because I've worked with the best and have the opportunity to do and so I think it's really amazing how I've made this pivot. And I don't necessarily need recruiters in the same way, but that you and I have met and I'm still getting the opportunity to work with amazing recruiters.
Bryan: Thank you. Yeah, no, it's I appreciate that. I think that it definitely, it draws an interesting bunch, we all, for the most part, truly care about the candidates and clients we work with. I've been to weddings, I've been to graduation parties and I never would've expected that even I had a candidate stay at my house for a weekend while he was, at the company where I got him a job, we hung out with my friends. So I'm really grateful to have some of those experiences.
Melody: Yeah, I can totally see that for you for sure. Alright, so let's talk about challenges in our landscape. And I know right now it is. A really tough time in our industry. I feel so blessed that I have never experienced a layoff, which is interesting because a lot of people shy away from being a contractor or consultant, feeling like there's no security in that.
But I've been on teams where I've watched people who I consider. And they're laid off, but yet, I'm still staying as a consultant. And I think right now, again, we're in this cycle of layoffs and changes in our team structures and how many resources we can have on a team that directly correlates to our budget tightening situation.
And so I'd love to hear your perspective on where we are right now and what the challenges we're facing.
Bryan: So to put it, there's no way to sugarcoat this. The job market right now, especially on the candidate side, is not good. We are very close to bottoming out based off of the data that. I'm seeing on job posting.
It's something I follow very closely in how many of those positions are getting filled. But we have had 10 quarters now of a regression in overall postings in the industry, and they've been cut in almost half over that period of time, going from about 19,000 job postings 10 quarters ago to now about 10,000 open roles that are posted.
So I a substantial decline. I think macroeconomic conditions are actually playing a larger role in this than anything related to like science or particular drugs. Obviously those play a big factor, but I've come to learn that interest rates, I. Are so influential in our industry because we need venture capital to invest in biotechs and it makes the whole system go around.
Yes,
Melody: it does. Yes. And I think for those of us that are in the day to day and we're in the trenches running trials operationally, and we feel like. We have a job right now. It's not on our, it's not front of mind. We're happy where we are. We are not dusting off our resume. We don't have any plans to leave.
And then we find ourselves in the situation where we now have to look for other opportunities, and that's when we realize how bad things may be and how difficult it's going to become to find another position.
Bryan: Yes. And I've had a lot of people who've been doing this a lot longer than I have who were, in the industry for 2008 during the recession.
It wasn't as bad as it is now. And so a lot of people recently laid off, they are expecting to find another job like that and probably even find something that they'll love. They've never not had options. And then we're at month six and it's I still haven't found a job like this is bad.
Melody: I agree. And I wish that there was something that I could say on this call that would, that we had a magic wand and could see in the future and say, if you can just hold on for this amount of time, it's going to open up. But we can't. And so then I start to think of what are other ways that we can help folks that are in these situations maybe pivot in the interim and move to consulting.
So many people are like, I don't even know where to start with that. But in speaking to the clients and companies I'm connected with, they're far more open to bringing in a consultant and having fractional. Team members who are open to just being there for three months while we take care of the data for this BLA filing, right?
And then we can part ways and we're not committed to an employee in the full-time commitment of that. And so I think if people could grasp, even if it's just in the interim during this time, that they're open to that and can set themselves up to become fractional. Consultants, then that's a way.
But of course that's scary if you've never done it. I'm used to it. It's my life. But if you haven't, you've been an employee, it's not so easy just to say, okay, I sign up. I'm gonna be a consultant for a few months and ride this thing through. And so I, I would hope that somehow people can tap into communities.
There's some great ones out there that can help them navigate different territory until they can get back to what they know.
Bryan: Absolutely. And I think the biggest piece of advice I'd have for anyone is just to keep your expectations low from the front end so that you don't miss out on some good potential leads in the beginning.
'cause you were being selective the way that you would've been. And understand that you might have to work for a tier two company when you've only really done tier one companies throughout your career. And it's just because when you have hundreds of people applying for one role, somebody might be dropping down two, three levels and taking a $50,000 pay cut that's hard to compete against.
Melody: It's, I agree. I agree. Where we're headed. We know where we are today. We know candidates are it's not great for candidates right now, but I also feel we're like in the midst of an evolution here. And we have ai, we have some things on the horizon that I think. Could change the way that we manage employability and bringing teams in and how we project what we will need in the future so that we possibly don't find ourselves in this space again.
So tell me your thoughts about that, because I know we've talked about it a little bit.
Bryan: I think that every professional should be learning AI l like it's their job. I personally am spending. Probably six to eight hours every weekend trying to obtain new AI skills and then work on them throughout the week to implement them within my job.
And there are things that aren't just specific to recruiting. Getting it, you can set up your email so that. It's giving you A-T-L-D-R for every long email message that you receive, and giving you a really good suggested response back based off of the context of that conversation. Your relationship with that person, and then in your tone of voice.
So that's, there's. When people think of ai, I think it depends on to what extent they've used it. 'cause if you're using, a free chat GBT account, that's a different experience than having a fine tuned model that answering emails. It. But I think any professional can realize just how much efficiency is gained when you're having that.
And I blindly trust this now, I'll let AI answer anything for me. The president of the United States could send me an email and I'll let a AI answer. AI's gonna
Melody: respond.
Because it literally will put together a better response than I could have naturally. I'm dyslexic, so it takes me a while to write email.
Sometimes they're, they can be all over the place. And for it to put my, what would've been my thoughts into a nice, succinct email, it's oh, this is wonderful. This has changed my life.
Melody: It is, there are some really great positives to it. I'm an advocate for it. But I always put the caveat, I'm an advocate for it.
With humans still running the show, I, especially in our industry, I think so many people are, have these great plans for it, but it's only, I think it can only be as great as the humans and the teams that will utilize it. It's a tool. And so I love the way that you're using it as a tool. Can you give me some insight?
I know we've talked about the candidate side right now, but can you gimme some insight as to how biotechs and pharmaceutical companies can utilize AI from their perspective in terms of hiring and talent acquisition?
Bryan: Yes. There are, at the enterprise level, there already is AI that's being used at these companies, whether they realize it or not.
Like they're, if talent acquisition, they will have LinkedIn recruiter licenses, which there's AI built into that. Not quite as robust yet as like what somebody could do on their own with, if you call it bring your own AI to work. I. Then in their applicant tracking systems. There also is ai.
When there's people, you apply for a job on LinkedIn, there is a portion that's sorting through resumes to an extent, and then producing, or mainly getting rid of the ones that are truly not a match. Somebody, you put that there's a geographic restriction, okay, this person doesn't live in this country, they'll never be applicable for the job.
What makes it tough at the. Biotech and pharmaceutical level is, it's a very heavily regulated industry and to make most effective use of it, for example, so if I do a job posting, I'm not gonna trust LinkedIn's AI system to use it as much. It doesn't find the candidates that I needed to find.
But, and so if I. Take those and put it into my own system, it can go through a stack of a hundred resumes faster than I can and produce better quality and have it based off of that particular hiring manager's preferences and then their employees and where they've worked before. 'cause there's gonna be patterns,
Melody: right?
And
Bryan: you'll find that, okay, so people who came from this company would've have. On average stayed at your organization for 7.5 years, whereas the average would be 2.1 years is what you'd expect within life sciences for a tenure with at a company. That's really good. There is something there. There's something about the experience from that company that translates here, and I want that.
Melody: Okay, so AI can really identify trends and historical. Information that maybe a human that's going through the same stack of resumes just simply could not do.
Bryan: Yes. And I guess with a biotech or pharmaceutical hiring manager, the more information they give me about what we're doing in the future then I really can fine tune things to look for specific profiles. And at the beginning it's a little bit of trial and error 'cause you don't know how heavily do I weigh this new information compared to historical. But overall, just and from my own desk, my success rate in finding the candidates that hiring managers want to speak with is so much higher that I honestly say that it's frightening.
It's better than me at my, what was my job for the first two and a half years.
Melody: Yeah. So it seems like with AI comes some really important strategizing at the front. So when a hiring manager of a company it's not a good idea just to focus on, I have a position, or I need a human being for this activity right now.
But to really understand the strategy for the company in terms of projects. What the needs will be in the future and not just focus in on this one position that I have open and I need one human to fill it right now. Tell me from your perspective how important strategy is in all of this.
Bryan: I think it's everything and it's something that's underutilized at the moment by every stakeholder.
So companies will have a strategy, broadly speaking, but the people that I'm talking to on those calls or getting jobs from, whether it's talent acquisition or hiring managers, they're not empowered. To make decisions within that process. It's just you're allocated this budget for this position.
Yes. And they're not able to play a longer term game, which I think would empower them to be more invested in the process too, because it's like, if you know you're gonna have to hire six people this year. These are gonna be the budgets for the six roles, then we can step back and think about it and say, Hey, maybe we don't need to allocate as much for this position because that's something that just has high turnover.
We need to find someone quickly.
Melody: Right.
And when you know these things in advance, so there are some like smaller companies where if I'm working with a senior vice president, they will have, be able to have much more oversight in that and we can plan so much more effectively for the year. It's fantastic, and then I can have people ready for them because one in every three employees who starts at your company this year will not finish the end of the year at your company.
So most positions that are being filled are not 'cause of growth, they're filling somebody else's job, and people aren't thinking about it in terms of that.
Melody: Yeah, that is something. On my side I preach, that's our mission here at the research associate group. People, culture and process.
And I think when we miss the boat on those three pieces, that's when people are leaving. And the investment we've made in the people to be in the positions we created. It's just a significant loss, a loss of knowledge, a loss in the training time. It's it to get them where we want them to be. And the team takes a hit when someone leaves, and then you impact the culture.
And it's why did this person leave? Are they're not supported because neither am I am I ever going to get the support? So I think strategy. Has a trickle down effect. And it's not just strategy for hiring, it's also pulls over into the current team that you have. And so the decision making that happens when you're bringing new team members on impacts the people process and culture that I focus on.
So I think what we both do marries right. Oh.
Bryan: Yeah, no. We both have that unique view into what is, the important characteristics that make great teams. Yes. And like the culture part that you talk about that is not cliche. It is Certain people will thrive in certain environments. Like I historically have done really well with managers who are like super hard on you.
I think the. I, even though he was a coach, but my high school hockey coach was borderline degrading. And I don't think any person has ever gotten more out of me as a human than he was able to. But that's most people, that won't be the case. Yeah. And so understanding those things about yourself and the type of manager that you're working with, even a difficult person, you can assemble them.
A wonderful team that works well.
Melody: Absolutely. And I think we miss the fact that culture is a part of brand. It's the branding company and it should be very evident the type of culture you have and it should be part of your brand. Good, bad, or indifferent. And if we need to make an adjustment to bring your brand, your culture, to another place in space, great.
But it's still whatever it is today that is the brand of your company. Especially when it comes to talent acquisition and bringing people in and keeping them there.
Bryan: Yes. No, I completely agree with you. The sad part is the companies who need the most culture work are the least likely to spend any time on it.
They treat interviews, that's why they're in the
Melody: situation they're in.
Yeah. Yes. And it's really, but it, you start to see the snowball effect of bad culture. People just aren't motivated to try and, oh we won't be able to change things. They throw their hands up
Melody: and they blame the people instead of the culture that they put in place.
And it's really a reflection on the leadership of the company, good or bad. And that's a message that I'm like trying to scream from the top of the buildings and the mountaintops to help people understand the investment in culture is so worth it. It's so worth it. And it has a downstream impact into your budgets and all the things that are money driven that everyone cares about.
So I find it very interesting that we put culture to the side and don't make any investment in it. 'cause it really does matter. So let's talk about building these mission aligned clinical teams. How can we make sure that culture and leadership. Plays a big part in the hiring process. What do you do from your side to really help these executives and hiring managers understand the important piece this plays when they're hiring.
Bryan: Like if it, in a perfect world, I've never had anybody do this, but I would have every hiring manager take like the Myers-Briggs test. Yes. That would be my preferred way to do it because when I think of culture, I'm it's gonna be on a team level and a hiring manager level. And then if we can just get good teams across the board, I think a good culture.
Bubbles to the top there. But I think it is so important to know who will work well with this person. 'cause sometimes you want some contrast too on a team. Yeah. You need it, but you can't have too many people that are overly outspoken. You can't have too many that are overly reserved. And what's interesting is, I found, even in my own hiring decisions, I actually don't trust myself.
To make that call, I need another party who knows me well to be involved in making that decision. Because I have found, like most people if it's left up to me, the people that I think are great culture fits are who's closest to Bryan Blair. And that is not going to create good culture at all.
And then I'll end up resorting, if I'm trying really hard to think about it, I end up with a like. Subservient type personality that will Yes. Man me, that is also not going to need to. Yeah. Yeah. And I know this about myself and I can't shake knowing that I will fall into that hole again. So it, it's but you just
Melody: get another person to help
Bryan: make
Melody: it Yes.
A more rounded decision. I think that's a great idea. I actually have an HR colleague slash friend who has actually implemented. Having everyone take the Myers-Briggs test. And so everyone internally that's already there has taken it, their scores and all of that, like the, that output is part of their HR file.
But then every candidate, they do it too. So they, there, she's matching and understanding the team structure that she's building when she brings a new person in. And so I agree, in a perfect world, I think everyone should do some form of that.
Bryan: Yes. It's the tough thing is too, is like you don't want to be peppering people like so much.
You gotta remember, like from the candidate's perspective too, if I'm having them take like these Myers-Briggs tests, like at least you'd want it to be a universal thing. I don't want to create another requirement. Companies have gone really far with making people do jumping through these hoops.
It's too much. And I even worry about the scale based hiring. That they talk about that the effect of that ends up becoming where it serves as the SAT basically, where it's just keeping the sm getting the smart kids who are already going to Harvard that much more well versed to go to Harvard. And it doesn't take into account like within this environment, how well is this person gonna perform?
Melody: Or engage or interact with others and the soft skills. That are needed. I keep coming across amazing professionals that from an experience and expertise, skillset perspective, off the charts, but then their soft skills are a better word, ratchet. Lack that you, they can't stay on the team. They, we can't keep them because that's, it has to be balanced.
We can't have too much of one and not enough of the other. So I agree and I think it would be a great, this is a great plug to tell everyone is listening. Know your scores, know where you fit on some of the standard. Personality assessments and those tests. So then you can just say, here it is.
I don't need to take it. Here's my output. Here it is in PDF. Take it. Do what you need to do with it if you need it as part of my hiring process.
Bryan: Yes. And I guess the other thing, you can change who you are too. You're not stuck in the archetype of person that you are. You can work on Beco bringing, I always say bring the best version of yourself to work.
And this is your mental health, your physical health, your social health. All those things are, we don't invest in those enough, but they make us so much better at what we do for our work.
Melody: I agree. I agree. And I think the people that have understood that and taken that to and ran with it, they're the.
Get the opportunities, they get the new projects at work, they're the ones that are pulled on or requested repeatedly to be on their, on the teams of leadership. And so I think that's a really good suggestion for people that haven't done that is it helps you really identify your strengths and weaknesses and to be a better candidate in the hiring process.
And then after you get the job to be a better team member where you end up.
Bryan: Yes, I couldn't agree more.
Melody: All right, so what do you think's next in biotech and pharma hiring? I know we talked about a little bit, we feel like we're on the rise of an evolution here. So what? What's ahead for.
Bryan: This is a tough question to answer because there's part of me that wants to say the things that we all hate are gonna get worse.
With like more years of experience being required when it's not necessary. And I like tell companies, Hey, why overpay for something we don't need to overpay for if we don't need a college degree? How are we making somebody have a college degree? The people without the college degrees, they usually.
Are asking for less money and they don't leave as often because not every company's flexible with that, but Right. They started in the industry at a time when you didn't need one, so now we're gonna say that they're not qualified anymore. That's crazy. Makes. So it's, I hope that stuff changes. I don't know.
I think there will be less talent acquisition people and recruiters. However, I think the ones who exist will have, I. Pretty particular archetypes. They're either going to be very technically savvy
Or extremely like the recruiter type personality you'd think of. And the best will be able to do both extremely well.
They're spending half their day and it almost looks like they're coding and then they're on the phone for six hours with people. That would be more of what I would expect and a lot more promoting on, LinkedIn staying active on those platforms. I think people will start doing first round interviews with ai.
Yes. And I actually think that people won't mind doing that after the initial adoption of okay, that was weird, but there, I think it will be good enough or people will. Start to enjoy it because it'll become faster. They'll be able to, you apply for a job. Okay. We'll speak to you right now because we don't need an actual person to talk to you.
But that could come with some downsides. We'll have to see what regulation will play a huge role in what level? Yes. It'll, that's able to take place. I think that where we are economically is going to play a huge role. I think people become much more okay with something like that when the economy's ripping and roaring, everybody's getting hired.
You're interviewing with ai, but you're probably gonna get the job. I think people all of a sudden become very receptive, like they're okay with that. Cool. And then the companies who don't do that are gonna be really behind the eight ball. But I think that for a lot of the work that I do, let's say, really hard to find talent like headhunting positions, it's gonna be very much the same type of work which is gonna, and so I.
I think that the pharmaceutical industry in particular, and biotech has so many positions that are like that. 'cause there's so many things where there might only be a hundred people in the country who do it. They're all employed, they're well paid. Yes. And they are certainly not applying for jobs on LinkedIn or anything.
I might have to help them put together their resume. Some of the best candidates it's funny, their resumes are horrible when they come to, because they dont need No, they don't need a good one.
Melody: They don't need them. Yeah, no, I see that too. And I think it's closer than we know. Like the future is closer.
It's not some far out situation where we're gonna realize it happened right before our eyes and it's here and we didn't realize it happened that quickly. That's how I see it for us. Yeah. Alright. So I think we're like, this has been a really good conversation to help us see.
Where we are today, how can we make some changes and where are we going? So what are your final takeaways? If you could have a moment to share with tho the leadership and the hiring managers who are thinking, what are we gonna do right now? We have work, we have these things keep, continue to happen despite what's going on outside these doors.
And we need humans. But we need to be very strategic about how we bring talent in to get the work done that we need to do. What is your advice to them?
Bryan: My first piece of advice is get selfish about hiring as an individual, understand that the people that you bring into your team are affecting your career.
On a personal level, you might not plan on being with this company for more than a year, but how much better is that last year gonna be? If you have. A C player versus an A player and by just taking a few small steps, like something as simple as I get it, you don't want to be interviewing people all day, every day.
It's annoying. But if when you have that, I. Candidate. That is perfect. It's perfect. Let's not treat this interview like we're talking to somebody to flip cheeseburgers, who's a teenager? You know the let's sell this both ways, because if you can sell them on yourself, sell them on I will take you under my wing and we are going to build something beautiful.
You. I see it all the time. Those candidates accept right away. They might even take less money. Sometimes they'll drop down in title. Just to work for you because you have that magnetic charisma that people are so drawn to and it even leads to retention down the line. The hiring manager, by far has the biggest influence over whether somebody stays at a company or not and is classified as a quality hire.
So it means they stayed for more than a year. The hiring manager, every study in the world will show has the biggest influence, be selfish about it. Get yourself the best people so you can have work-life balance back. You can make more money, get promotions, and that's been the ones I've had most the most success with.
I follow from company to company. We build them teams and they, I can't believe like they're getting promoted every year. The salary's going up. I'll be like, I don't think you can switch jobs right now because you. Have almost priced yourself out of this like market. Currently we need inflation a little bit here to get your salary to where it's back within the bands.
That's a great problem to have.
Melody: It is. It's, I agree. I agree. I think that, I had never considered it that way, but to be selfish when you hire, I that's light bulb moment. I'm glad you shared that.
Bryan: Oh, thank you. I just, you gotta figure, people are, obviously, we all look out for ourselves, so let's just be intentional about it.
Melody: Agree. I agree. And when we do that, somehow it works out to where other people benefit too.
Bryan: Absolutely. 'cause they'll see that you take things seriously, you believe in them, and that, I don't think there's a more rewarding feeling you could have than taking that person who is. Maybe not floundering in their career, but an average to an above average performer and you spark that light in them. I mean that, I think that's worth more than any amount of money you could make. That's something you'll forever remember.
Melody: I agree. I agree. And I just think it speaks to the kind of leader that you are or can become because those are attributes of a really great leader. Yes. Yeah, I agree.
Thank you Bryan. I'm so glad you joined me today and we were able to have this discussion. I hope that it's helpful. I know there are so many people that are in the job market or they're fearful and unsure if they will find themselves in the job market. And then the flip side of the coin, right?
The folks that are in the seats of having to decide how to proceed with, manage, with hiring and being and what is to come for their organization in the future. So I think this was a great discussion. I'm so glad you joined me.
Bryan: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And it's been so nice.
I always enjoy speaking with you, Melody.
Melody: Same here. Same here. All right. Take care.
Bryan: Yep. Bye now.
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