Leadership, Mental Health & Innovation in Clinical Research

In this episode, we sit down with Jess Thompson, MS, MBA, PMP, a leader in clinical research project management, to explore the evolving landscape of leadership, mental health, and professional development in the industry. 

Jess shares insights on:

•𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗶𝗻 𝗮 𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵-𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗲𝘀 𝗜𝗻𝗱𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗿𝘆: How clinical research professionals can develop strong leadership skills while managing complex projects.
•𝗠𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗛𝗲𝗮𝗹𝘁𝗵 & 𝗕𝘂𝗿𝗻𝗼𝘂𝘁: The unique challenges clinical researchers face and strategies to foster resilience.
•𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗙𝘂𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 & 𝗡𝗲𝘁𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴: Rethinking professional education and the role of unconventional conferences.

Tune in for a deep dive into the realities of clinical research leadership and practical takeaways for professionals at all levels.

Welcome to Beyond the Protocol—where authentic conversations about clinical research happen.

Hosted by Melody Keel, bringing together diverse professionals from across the industry to share insights and experiences about what it really takes to deliver successful clinical trials.

This isn't about perfect processes—it's about real people sharing real solutions.

Let's go beyond the protocol.

That's all for today's episode of Beyond the Protocol—where we explore what it truly takes to deliver successful clinical trials. 

If you found value in today's conversation, please subscribe, share with your network, and leave a review. 

Have experiences or insights to share? Reach out and be part of the conversation.

Join us next week as we continue to discover what lies beyond the protocol.

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This Podcast is Sponsored by The Research Associate Group, Inc.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Guest Intro
• 2:29 Jess’s Unconventional Journey
• 4:44 The Problem with Silos
• 6:44 Everyone Is a Project Manager
• 9:44 PMP Certification in Clinical Research
• 13:14 Burnout & Mental Health in ClinOps
• 17:44 Heal Out Loud
• 20:44 Redefining Work-Life Balance
• 22:44 The Future of Training & Learning
• 27:44 When Poor Training Fails the Trial
• 30:44 Introducing the Clinical Research Cruise Conference
• 34:44 Mental Health, Community & Professional Growth—All in One Place
• 37:14 Final Thoughts

Transcript

Melody: Welcome to Beyond Protocol, where I'm excited to have for episode four, my guest, Elizabeth Tabor, who has graciously offered to be here with us today to share some really awesome insights into breaking barrier in clinical research. So welcome, Elizabeth. 

Elizabeth: Thank you for having me. Melody, I'm excited to be on beyond the protocol.

Melody: Yeah. So let's just dig right in. Let's just go for it. Tell me about how you got into clinical research. What has your journey been? 

Elizabeth: Okay, so I got into clinical research by code emailing. After I graduated, I just looked up any and everybody near me that was doing something related to clinical research.

And I just started sending out my resume saying, Hey, I'm a new graduate, but give me a chance. Apparently that landed in the right inbox and I was able to get in contact with the site. From there, went in, did the interview, and unfortunately I didn't get it. However. I had made such a great impression and I actually used LinkedIn to do so before my interview, it was a panel interview. I went on LinkedIn and I looked up everybody that was gonna be on my panel interview and I, one fact about everybody. So that had led such impression. When another role came up, they thought of me, they was like, okay, I remember you from the previous one.

Iron her. Iron her, yay. And so that's how I actually got into clinical research, co emailing, and then also LinkedIn. 

Melody: I think there's something to be said about persistence when you're trying to break into this industry. Because for those who know me or may have heard my story, I sent my resume to INC research on their fax machine.

Yeah. Dinosaur for 38 or 40 days, I don't remember how many days, but every day at the same time I sent my resume 'cause I wanted their clinical trial administrator role. It was entry level and I was like, I want this role. And so I just did it. And they called and said, we are tired of getting your resume on our fax machine.

Please come interview for this role. And I landed it. So I think for people that are interested in getting into the industry or finding a different role. Persistence can be everything to whether you actually get in or not. 

Elizabeth: Absolutely. And I also think it shows resourcefulness. This is an industry where you have to be resourceful.

So with you having no experience and not knowing anybody, you do have to start using your resources and getting in front of those decision makers. Absolutely. I agree. 

Melody: Okay, so you landed your first position, and how do we get from there? To where you are now leading this amazing community of folks that are either interested or they're in and looking for more support.

How did we land here? 

Elizabeth: So we landed for my own personal experience. I'll be honest, when I first entered corporate America, I had a culture shock. It was different than being an undergrad, understanding the dynamics and where I was in the hierarchy. I struggle with that. So from there I had got some advice and I read How to Win France and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

I suggest that book to everybody. Excellent. From there just reading those tips, I was like, Hey let me try it. So I started trying the different tools and tricks in the book and I realized that I was having a more positive response in my workplace. And then it's like a light bulb went off connections matter.

Yeah. From there, as I was progressing through my career, I heavily relied on my network to move me to the next level. And eventually I got to where I had set out to be, which was a CRA. However, for me, I got to a point where I wanted to start looking at other areas in clinical research. From there I had realized I had let my network die.

I was like, oh, I made it where I wanted to be. Networking's networking. I saw on LinkedIn that everybody was having issues with the economy, and I was like network has worked for me before. LinkedIn has been my bread and butter. Let's try it again. But instead of doing it for myself, I was like, let me try to help as many people as possible and that is where I am today.

Melody: Yeah. And I find when you take the focus off of yourself and your mission is to serve or help others in some kind of way, it just explodes exponentially for, and it's just the power of service. I think honestly, 

Elizabeth: I could definitely agree with that. This journey. Very fulfilling. To me even my own LinkedIn feed is more connected and as that's how I met you.

So I, yeah, that's how we met the power 

Melody: of LinkedIn. Absolutely. 

Elizabeth: Yeah. So definitely just realizing that networking is a skill and not a lot of people are taught the skill of networking. I was like, let me, help bridge that gap. 

Melody: I agree. I agree. Which I think as we evolve in our industry and even our world, right where we are right now, I think employability is changing right before our eyes and how we work and earn a living and find our space to share our gifts and what we've gone to school for and our expertise.

I think we need to begin to prepare ourselves for this change and networking and understanding how relationships can help you with that is so important. And I think you've really you're ahead of the game in terms of understanding that. And I love your LinkedIn handle. You're the connector.

I, I agree with that. And you really enjoy talking to people. Engaging with people and you connect people together. I know you've even given me some tips and hints on LinkedIn on how to make my connections better. So share with me where you are and why you feel that it's so powerful to maintain relationships and network within our industry.

Elizabeth: I would say that we are a global industry for one, and oftentimes people talk about patient recruitment and the barriers that we face, and networking, in my opinion, helps solve that problem. By talking to other clinical researchers across the globe, you start to understand what's working in different communities.

So that knowledge sharing is. Just so important in pushing the industry forward. Because without it, we wouldn't know what's working and what's not working. And for me, in my opinion, too long, people have just not been talking and the conversations are appearing to be in a circle instead of just being like, Hey, what's going on over here?

And being able to implement a solution quicker. 

Melody: I agree. I think that's something that we all experience in all areas of what we do in this industry where we find ourselves looping and we just keep doing the same thing. I think this is a theme in a lot of my conversations I've had with guests on the show as we just keep going in circles and we have to find a way to snip that circle and go forward so we can make the changes necessary that we all know need to happen.

We just haven't seen them. The way we want to, right? 

Elizabeth: Yes, totally agree. I often tell people with networking, you can learn something that took somebody 20 years an hour. And when you consider that time trade off of having that information, you see how valuable it is to just ask the question than doing everything yourself, which is unrealistic and really wastes a lot of resources when you have people available to help you.

It 

Melody: does. And when you're able to like gain from someone else's knowledge and experience, that's a form of wealth. I think we miss that sometimes that you just. Scrunched in the timeline for what you would need to spend in order to obtain that skill or that information or that wisdom? I know I work with a lot of project managers and CRAs in my world, and it's evident the ones who are networkers and relationship builders and they like to spend time with people and learn because their bucket to pull from in terms of the experience is so much greater.

Extend the people that kind of silo themselves and they don't make those connections. So I do, I think it's a, another form of wealth, honestly. 

Elizabeth: Oh yes, definitely agree. I tell people well. Or not, networking is part of your job. It's important for team integration internal and external. And oftentimes people are like, why would I have to have this conversation?

Or they don't even know where to start with that conversation. But networking is just as much as your job as the technical experience because we do have to work together to get these complex trials running and out there. Absolutely. 

Melody: Absolutely. And I think. As part of the networking, I'm like on this mission that I want everyone to know they should be their own individual brand and company.

Even if you are a W2 employee, you should still be building your brand and making sure people, when they come to see who you are, they can understand your experience, what you believe in, what you value what your current face looks like. 'cause I'm so tired of seeing LinkedIn profiles with no picture.

It's important 'cause it helps you. In your current, whatever your current job is or consulting position or whatever, but it'll also help you in the future as we begin to change the way we become employed. So I'm all about that for sure. 

Elizabeth: Yes. I think you hit on a very important topic there about, being the brand.

So before C-R-C-I-I was the brand. Yeah. Setting up my LinkedIn page to be more of a sales page of these are the services I offer and not a historical document of what I, what you used to do. Because I love to tell members that much how you wouldn't eat at a restaurant without reviews. People are really not trying to employ people that they can't find anything about.

Yes, we live in the. Information. As much as we look up companies, company, look us, looks us up as well. So it's important to give them something to look at. Controlling your narrative is so important and the people that don't put that effort into it are no longer controlling their ne 

Melody: like, go secure your name, your domain, you, no one should have your domain, your name, if you go to melody keel.com.

There's something there. Like we all should have our own personal websites 'cause there's only one melody kil, there's only one Elizabeth Tabor. So that's the easy way, even before you get to LinkedIn, when someone googles you to find out about you and you control the narrative. When you have your own personal brand website of what do you want people to know about you?

Elizabeth: Yes. All of our control. The narrative? 

Melody: Yes. Always. Okay, so let's talk about, issues or challenges that we see or from your perspective in our industry in clinical trials? Because I think we all have, we all know there's challenges, right? That we encounter daily. But it's amazing how when I talk to people, everyone kind of has a different viewpoint on what the challenge is.

They're similar, but they're different because we have different experiences and different roles. So I would love to hear your perspective on where we are in the industry and some challenges and how you and your organization are working to change that. 

Elizabeth: I feel like one, the issues that I see is people's unwilling to give back or remember that they was once new as well.

There's a lot of mid and senior level professionals that unfortunately have a superior error about themselves and don't want to help those behind them. And for me that's a huge issue because I needed that help and I know how much that help, mattered to me. And when we talk about the next generation of clinical researchers, it's just important for those of us who have been in the industry to give back and not just let them, sink or swim.

'cause that has been the narrative so long in this industry about sinking and swimming. But lives are at stakes. Just giving that, you know back how you once got it as 

Melody: well. I agree. When you say lives are at stake, I think it's important to highlight the fact that lives are at stake on both sides of the coin.

The patients who we are doing the clinical trials or who will benefit from the therapies and treatments that get approved as a result of the work that we're doing. But also the lives of the people who are doing the work. That's one of the missions I'm on, is to make sure we don't forget about our side of the line and the people that are dedicating their lives and working overtime and giving up time with their children and their families to make sure our deliverables are met so that these drugs can be determined if they can go on and save people's lives or not.

So I think it's important to remember that it's two sides of the coin, not just the patient's lives who we're working towards and for, but also our lives. The people who are working. The nine to five or the 80 hour weeks to get the work done. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, definitely for us without the knowledge sharing, that leads to burnout because you're spending more time trying to figure out these complex tasks or having to redo them because nobody's willing to help you and.

That's just the issue all around that I'm very passionate about, of give a helping hand. It's okay. Somebody had to help you and even if you're somebody that didn't get the help, be the help you wish 

Melody: you had. Absolutely. I had an amazing mentor very early on in my career. I didn't even have to ask her.

She just saw something in me and pulled me to the side and started like giving me really good advice and just sage wisdom. She's actually who I can credit towards me taking the consultant route. Who's heard of someone that's only been in the industry for three years going full-time consultant, but she was like, I can help you.

I can show you how to do it. You have talent that you shouldn't just, be in one space, in one place where you can be in control and have an entrepreneurial spirit because she knew I did. And I credit her to my career and how it, the trajectory of it, just because she took some time in the early stages of my career and spent with me and gave me some of her knowledge and experience.

So I'm all for that. I think everyone should have someone that they're helping currently. If you don't, you should be helping someone get along the path the same way you've been able to follow your path. 

Elizabeth: I agree. I credit everything to my mentors. I was a blank slate, so without people pouring into me, I know I wouldn't be here today.

And way of, giving that time and energy they put into me back is doing that for others. Because that person, you're overlooking could be the key to all the problems. Have but it's just a matter of not always seeing people at face value of where they are, but sometimes the potential of where they could go.

Melody: Exactly. Exactly. I agree. I agree. So let's talk about something else that I know you and I have had some conversations about before, and that's diversity in clinical trials. Why does this matter and how can we improve representation? And I know I don't even wanna go into the political situation that we all know we're experiencing right now.

Let's just keep it with the importance of diversity in clinical trials and the science behind it, and how we can really make a difference from our perspective. 

Elizabeth: Okay. For me, diversity is important because medicine is created to save lives. If the medicine is not working for a diverse population that is decreasing, that population's life expectancy because they do not have interventional medicine, that continues to happen and then, that affects generations.

It's not a, right now, it's a generational impact of this. Medicine is not. So these group of people are dying sooner. With that, for me, workforce development is super important with diversity. The areas that people wanna teach. They work in the communities. One of the first questions people ask you are, what do you do for work?

And if nobody in your community is saying, I work in clinical research, that means that there are no nobody to vouch for it to build trust within the community. So I think it's important to start with the people who are passionate about moving medicine forward and then work the way back. You can't access communities that nobody works in.

Melody: I agree. I agree. I have had the opportunity to speak with some amazing communities of nurses and physicians and future healthcare leaders that are very diverse and it's intentional for that very reason because they know if they can plant the seed of how important clinical research is in these young future leaders that will be guiding us through healthcare over the next 20, 30 years.

That's exactly how we're gonna get the patients in the trials because that's who has the trust of the patients, not our companies that we work with and for. And so I think the grassroots efforts are the real deal. How we're gonna make a change in this, regardless of what the government says, should or shouldn't happen, it won't even matter because the people that they go to for their care, who they trust will need them to the right trials and the right research for them.

Elizabeth: Absolutely. For me, I'm very passionate about clinical research. I've been in my local communities talking about what I do, you know why it's important. And I know people that would've never considered it if they didn't know me. So even now, they'll bring it up to their doctors like, Hey, I know that clinical trials is a thing.

I'm interested. Or if they come across something where they feel a little uncomfortable, they'll call me and say, Hey, is this a normal 

Melody: process? You do this? That's the call I get all the time. Is this something I should do? And then I'm like, okay, send me the consent. I don't have it. That's a problem. Like they, if they asked you if you're interested, you should have a consent to take home.

And like little things that are big things for us, but for them, they don't understand because they don't know the process. 

Elizabeth: Yeah, it's a community effort. Your doctors are not always there. Your nurses, your study coordinators. So to have somebody else you can trust to have be a sounding board I was advocate, yes, a advocate of I was approached with this opportunity.

It's a little scary. What are your thoughts? 

Melody: That is such, you do it. That's the question I get. Would you do this? 

Elizabeth: Yeah, that, that is a question that I get as well. For me, if I'm being honest, I'm scared of needles, so I always say, it's a bit too much blood for me all. I trust the process. Especially being black.

There is a lot of stigmas in the black community regarding clinical trials and being a Guinea pig. So even just breaking down the understanding of you're more monitored than you are. We're just going to see your doctor. I was like, they're checking every week. So even if it's not what you're on trial about, there's things that they're not missing that they might have missed if you were just doing routine.

Who's in that? Yeah. So I always tell the people if anything it's a nice health check-in. You'll learn things about yourself that you probably wouldn't learn otherwise. Otherwise. Yeah, I agree. I 

Melody: agree. All right, so let's talk about professional growth. 'cause I know your community, that is what you're, that's what you're all about.

And helping people to get into the industry or stay in the industry and it be a positive experience for them. And I know we didn't get to talk a lot about that, but some of your experience in the industry wasn't as positive. And so you're really on a mission to help others not haul into some of those pit holes, right?

And so tell me a little bit about the employee mindset versus entrepreneurial thinking in clinical research. 

Elizabeth: I, for me, an employee mindset is more not taking control of your career path. One where, the company says these are the, you should hit exactly when you should hit them. So a point mindset.

You move at the company's pace and I feel like more of an entrepreneurial mindset is you move at your own pace. Just because somebody gave you a career ladder does not mean that's the ladder for you. So being able to, align your own goals and where you wanna see. I know for me, I personally progressed pretty quickly, but that's because I was aggressive about it and I made sure that I only took opportunities that.

Took me where I wanted to go. Oftentimes people are scared to say no, but sometimes it's definitely needed when you know, you're getting off track of where you're trying to be. 

Melody: Yeah, I agree. And I think we have to number to two way street. Yes. I'm here to push the goals and deliverables and support them of the organization that I'm with.

I also have to make sure I'm in control of the goals and deliverables I have for myself, both professionally and personally. And a lot of times we lose sight of that. We were so focused on making sure we're good employees. 

Elizabeth: Yes. I tell people, whether you're a W2, a 10 99 or whatever, you are a business.

You are selling services, and if you allow yourself to be put in a box, that means your services are limited and then also what you can charge for those services. So it's definitely very important for people to take that control and realize that just 'cause somebody gave you a plan doesn't mean you have to follow that plan, especially if it's not gonna get you to where you want to go.

Melody: I'll say when I feel like when you're in control, you have a very clear understanding of where you fit into the organization and how you can improve it and make it better. And the people that are in control of themselves and what they offer and how they offer it, they seem to be the ones that are like magnets and they're wanted on the projects, teams are fighting for them.

They just have a positive I can't think of the word of, but they're just magnets. People are magnetized to them, and I think it's because their work output is reflective of the goals they have for themselves. And so it just, the output is just different from those that are just have the employee mindset.

I'm here from my nine to five, I'm just gonna do what I need to do. I'm not gonna do anything extra because that's not my job. Like that kind of situation. So it's just finding the balance. 'cause you don't wanna be out of balance and be used up right. But you also wanna make sure you are in control and you're giving your best.

And it's not necessarily giving your best for the company, it's giving your best for you. And then it just translates into a really good situation where you're always highly valued and sought out. 

Elizabeth: I definitely agree. You gotta know your strengths and weaknesses and when different things come across your desk, being honest to say, thanks for considering me, but this is not my strengths.

It's not where I best fit in. And then giving a solution. I always tell people, if you're gonna say no, at least give us a solution about, what you can do instead of I've seen oftentimes people just say yes to any and everything because they believe there. Recipe for disaster, but that's not the case.

I, being a professional is important to know when say no. But there are many times I've said no. Got the backlash for it. No, but it worked out in my favor because I would've crashed and burned if I said yes. 

Melody: It's a yes. I agree. I agree. Great advice. So I think that's a good segue for us to talk about what's next for you.

I know you have, I think you have aggressive goals. I think that's just how you roll. No matter where you are the next, you're always looking ahead to what's next, and you set the bar high. So what's next for you? 

Elizabeth: So what's next is being able to support businesses more. So right now we've really been focused on that professional networking, but we are more moving to we are, we'll start including business to business networking because I've seen a lot of redundant businesses or it's realizing they're not talking or they're having the same struggles.

So being able to support them is next on our list. 

Melody: Awesome. Supporting businesses that are in clinical research, right? 

Elizabeth: Yes. In research, those patient recruitment companies, those consultants billing, just anybody that has a business and it's Hey, I'm having a hard time, reaching people.

We are out saying now. 

Melody: That's amazing. That's amazing. I love it. Thank you so much Elizabeth, for joining us today. I hate this has been an amazing conversation and discussion and I'm looking forward to watching your journey and seeing how you continue to connect those of us in clinical research.

Elizabeth: Ah, absolutely. It's been such a pleasure to come on your show. Can't wait to watch this episode and all the ones to come afterwards. 

Melody: Awesome.